SM: True knowledge, the legacy from prophets, sages,great artists, great scientists, great leaders in the past, have revealed itself "instantly" to them." Isn't this contrary to the idea that old age leads to wisdom, though? If such wisdom can be gained in a moment, then both wisdom and logic/reason are accessable to all ages. So are the elderly not really any more wise than the rest of us? (That's kind of what I've always felt, but for different reasons.)
I will be honest that I do not really understand the emphasis on ritual. I do understand things like meditation and ceremonies, to a certain degree. But I don't really get what is meant when you say "ritual" or what it's value really is supposed to be. I guess I should read the book :)
HG: There is wisdom in not being so solid so 100% sure! Yes read the book SM. Ritual is a key to the mystery and the mystical of the unknown
SM: Who is to decide what wisdom is? Are you 100% sure that wisdom is not being 100% sure? :-)
HG: Laughter and Joy! A big hug SM!!!
SM: :-)
NS: :-)) me join in! Interconnecting is across space and time, isn't it? The past and the future is connected by continuation. Yet every age has different problem and challenge (or wisdom). In her account in the Great Transformation, Ms Armstrong says we are at the end of axial age, with Islam during Muhammad period being the last flower. Yet we have not lived up to the compassionate teaching of prophets and sages. So this is our own challenge, not theirs.
Ritual is known through experience where we have developed "knacks" of doing our daily things, where we may achieve ecstasy (or "the flow). An example in the tradition, Balinese dancers and some audience, achieve trance/ecstasy during dance performance which is related to their religious function. Christian in eastern part of Indonesia adopted the tradition of meal prayers, where they recite each ingredient of the dishes, farmers who grow it, and people who involve in the process. Hungry stomach won't tolerate this one minute longer..:-), yet the ritual present the connection between people in different place and time.
HV: Very interesting discussion! From my perspective, it's not the theologies that we need to liberate ourselves from but from our own ego/separation-based thinking. If our mind is in the right place, nothing outside myself can take away my peace. The point for me is not whether something is good or bad, but to what purpose are we using theology or ritual or anything? If my purpose is peace or compassion, then some thoughts or behaviors will be helpful and others will hinder me achieving my purpose. In other words, I am either listening to the voice of the Divine in me or I am listening to my ego.
SM: My personal opinion is that it is harmful to believe in falsehoods, and therefore it is compassionate for me to actively oppose it. That is as simple as I can say it.
JH: (I)t is harmful to believe in falsehoods..." Not always. Perhaps not even frequently. Many things people believe have little or no effect on anyone or anything. It is actions that are a problem, not beliefs. People can believe different things and yet decide to take the same actions, good or bad. As some one who believes in reason and logic, isn't it better learn more rather than opposing what you have decided, based on limited ability and information, is false? That "concrete evidence" you may be relying upon may actually be shifting sand. Your time may be better spent trying to understand why someone believes differently than you do. I think compassion requires listening and patience in most cases, rather than confrontation. Except when you are opposing someone who advocates confrontation :)
HV: Hear! Hear, JH! I agree with you on the importance of our work is to listen and understand, hence the value of programs like the Compassionate Listening Project. I like your last line, too, as I joke that I'm only prejudiced against people who are prejudiced..
JH: Yeah, the last line was a joke...even when someone is advocating confrontation, understanding why they do so is important, and it is also important to realize that there could be situations where confrontation is the most compassionate thing you can do. I feel the same way about violence, as I noted before-it's usually not good, but perhaps is compassionate in some cases, and someone can act violently reasonably believing that they are being compassionate.
(to be continued)
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Sinyal Bagus XL, Nyambung Teruuusss...!
------------------------------------
=======================
Milis Wanita Muslimah
Membangun citra wanita muslimah dalam diri, keluarga, maupun masyarakat.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/wanita_muslimah
Situs Web: http://www.wanita-muslimah.com
ARSIP DISKUSI : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wanita-muslimah/messages
Kirim Posting mailto:wanita-muslimah@yahoogroups.com
Berhenti mailto:wanita-muslimah-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Milis Keluarga Sejahtera mailto:keluarga-sejahtera@yahoogroups.com
Milis Anak Muda Islam mailto:majelismuda@yahoogroups.com
Milis ini tidak menerima attachment.Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wanita-muslimah/
<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wanita-muslimah/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
wanita-muslimah-digest@yahoogroups.com
wanita-muslimah-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
wanita-muslimah-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
0 comments:
Post a Comment